Can anyone post a breakdown of Camera Lens combo's for use with Stitcher. I am looking to buy a new setup and am looking at either Canon 5D + Sigma 8mm or Nikon XX?? with Nikon-10.5 fisheye. Used for real estate, school tours, business tour's (all online) I think the good starter setup is the Nikon CPX with FC-9 fisheye / Agnos rotator. Thanks in advance

trsdellis
The benefit of the Sigma 8mm is fewer shots needed for a full 360°x 360° image. Traditionally 4 shots around horizontal, plus Zenith and Nadir shots. An alternative shoot method with the Sigma 8mm is to tilt the camera & lens up 10-15° when shooting the 4 shots around, eliminating the need for the Zenith shot and using a tripod cap to cover the small hole at the bottom.
 
The Nikkor usually take 6 shots around horizontal plus a Zenith and Nadir
 
Fewer shots is usually prefered for lower paying real estate tours.
 
The Sigma 8mm is available with either Nikon or Canon mounts, so you could buy a Nikon D200 (a favorite among VR photogaphers) and have the benefit if using the Sigma first and have the option of adding the Nikkor 10.5mm to your "toolbox" later.
 
Just a note; Stitcher, particularly Unlimited DS, can stitch photos from most camera & lens combinations provided there is enough overlap. Even "standard" rectilinear 50mm lenses. They just take a lot more photos to cover the interior of a sphere or cube becasue of the narrower Field of View

djaurand,
 
Thanks for the reply - I thought that the Nikkor would be able to do 4 shots (or even 3) as its a 180 degree lens - In your experience do you find it needs 6. Also, I never worry too much about Zenith and Nadir (i.e. Taking 2 extra shots) as in real estate, 99% of the people viewing the 360 dont ever look all the way up or down - in my experience anyway.
 
In my research, I have found posts on various forums stating that the Nikkor 10.5 gives superior image results as compared with the sigma 8 - is this true, would anyone else care to respond - I am stuck between a Nikon D200 / 300 or a Canon 5D right now.
 
Thanks

trsdellis
It may be possible to get a complete 360° around horizontal with a Nikkor 10.5mm in just 4 shots if the camera is in Landscape position, but you'll be giving up a lot of vertical Field of View.
 
Normally, both the Sigma and Nikkor are used in Portrait position. You can see how much of the image is lost at the top and bottom in the examples on the iPIX website where they showed what their RealViz Stitching Extension could do with both lenses at this link http://www.ipix.com/products_iis_samples.html
 
The Nikkor 10.5mm produces a "full frame fisheye" image, theorectically 180° from corner to corner (I have my doubts). The Sigma 8mm produces a "cropped fisheye" that's shaped like a hockey rink. Its 180° accross the curved part of the "rink." This is compared to the "circular fisheye" I get from my FC-E9 lens converter.
 
I don't have personal experience with either lens, but am about a month away from buying the Sigma 8mm f/3.5 for my Canon XTi.
 
From what I've been able to gather, the Nikkor 10.5 is brighter and sharper than the the older Sigma 8mm f/4. But the Sigma 8mm f/3.5 is almost an all new lens and there is little visible difference in a stitched image.
 
On the International Virtual Reality Photographers Association website, www.IVRPA.org, their Members Gallery identifies the camera & lens for each virtual image. At the bottom of the Members Gallery main page you can click on "Sigma 8mm EX Fisheye" and see images taken with just that lens although I'm not sure if it tells which version.
 
I'd go for the Canon and its CMOS sensor, that's why I chose my XTi

Theres a couple sets of downloadable source images taken with a Nikon D200 and Nikkor 10.5mm on the bottom of the www.360Precision.com homepage. They're labeled "Oxford Market." The set I've played with with is 6 shots around plus a Zenith but no Nadir
 
You can give them a try yourself, without buying everything first. Cool huh?

Hi trsdellis!
 
You could walk on the wild side - a Canon 5D & the Nikkor 10.5mm.
Try googling "shaved 10.5" - and you will find some interesting options.

Marrying a Nikkor Lens to a Canon, or any other brand of cameras, is just begging for problems and making work harder.
 
Most of the adapters don't support the auto-focus or auto-exposure
 
If some one wants to use the Nikkor 10.5mm they should get a Nikon or a Fujifilm and keep it simple

Hi Doug!
 
What are you basing your comments on? From my readings things don't seem that difficult, there are many Canon 5D/10.5mm users (including such world class panographers as Jook Leung & Peter Murphy). Granted this is not everyone's cup of tea... but your curt dismissal seems rather unsupported by the body of evidence as to the success of this combo.
 
Adapters not supporting auto-focus... you use auto-focus in your panos? No auto-exposure? This is a problem? Manually exposing your images should not be a problem.
 
Again, these type of things are not for everyone, but why not let them discover their own levels instead of assigning it to them by fiat? (That's too difficult for you - don't even consider it.)
 
I do appreciate that you are trying to flag potential problems... but why not let others reach their own conclusions as to what the possibilities are, given their own talents & proclivities?

Jim Scott
I didn't mean to be kurt, but a lot of the inquiries on this Forum about camera & lens choices are from newbies or those moving up from some of the simpler to use combinations like the Coolpix/FC-E9 that trsdellis and I use.  
 
It just doesn't seem like the smartest move, in the context of this thread where trsdellis is planning to buy both a new camera and a new lens, to complicate his work by trying to use a camera & lens that, without an adapter, won't work together when there are so many possible combinations that do.
 
My thinking is, he (and I) would be better served by a camera/lens combo that works together "by design" in our first step up to a dSLR set up, before trying to use a camera & lens with an adapter thats not supported by either Nikon or Canon.
 
Just seems like a common sense approach, since I'm not "World Class" yet
 

Guy's - now I am getting confused - I was looking at the hardware bundle's offered by Realviz, like the HDR Imaging studio:
 
This bundle includes:  
- Nikon D200 + 18-70mm Lens  
- Sigma 8mm f/3.5 EXDG Fisheye Lens - Nikon Mount  
- 360Precision Adjuste Panoramic Head  
- Manfrotto 190XB Tripod  
- LowePro OmniPro Bag  
- Sandisk 1GB Ultra II CF Memory Card  
 
 
Basically a D200 with a Sigma fisheye - I see no mention of adapters etc?

Hi trsdellis,
 
As the supplier of the hardware kit sold by REALVIZ in that example, I can tell you it's a great solution. If you use a Canon 5D with the Sigma 8mm you'll only need to take 3 x shots with that kit to get great images. Or with a smaller sensor camera, such as the Canon 40D or the Nikon D80/300 you'll need 4 x shots with the Sigma 8mm or 7 x shots with the Nikon 10.5mm.
 
But it's a mile away in quality of result from the Nikon P5100 Coolpix and an FC-E8. That's why there's such a price difference. The P5100 solution can't begin to match the quality you'd get from a 5D/Sigma 8mm.
 
The answer for you is simple. If you want 360 images with a minimum of effort and simplicity of operation, get a Nikon P5100 solution. If you want a quality solution that will knock your client's socks off when they see your images, get the REALVIZ HDR kit.
 
Both Jim and Doug have good points to make but you want to keep it simple, right? I'm guessing you are just starting out here so forget about "shaved Nikons" and Nikon to Canon mount adaptors...

Badders,
 
Thanks for the reply - it was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks - I think I like the Nikon 300 / Sigma 8mm setup - for some reason I like the 300 over the 5D - thats unless anyone out there can show the 5D - Sigma or Nikkon 10.5 setup as better.
 
I currently use a CP8700 + FC Fisheye lens and adapter on an Agnos rotator for my 360's - I find I have to really process the images to get satisfactory results - you can see an example via this link:
 
http://www.360ocala.com/tours/tcam [...] 1815B.html
 
I used the CP8700/FC fisheye setup, took 4 x 90 degree shots - processed in CS2 - used "Neat Image" plug in for noise reduction. Stitched with Realviz Stitcher DS 5.6 Unlimited - I never get good results with the DS (2 shot) function - I can always see the stitch.
 
Then its your basic Tourweaver 3.0 production of the tour.
 
All in all, each 360 takes about 50-70 minutes (depending on the shot's) of processing from start to final "Speherical Image" ready to import into Tourweaver. My big time consumer is layering under-exposed window shots so you can see thru the glass (The Solarium in the tour took ages)
 
Thanks for your replys - As I have mentioned earlier, I am not happy with my current setup and am looking to upgrade. I have been doing this for about 9 months now so please forgive my ignorance and photography skills.

trsdellis
For your layering you might try Photomatix Pro or I think Photoshop CS2 has a High Dynamic Range function.  
 
I use Photomatix Pro and spend about 1/2 hour per image
 
You might Zoom a little so the circle is bigger. You get more pixels and more resolution that way
 
I looked at your tour and its a nice job. I looked close at the Living Room scene and you did great on the "Window Views." There are some dark areas, part of which is the room itself I'm guessing. You migh try using "Curves" in Photoshop to brighten those darker areas.

djaurand,
 
Thanks for the advice - when you have the CP8700 with Fisheye setup, the zoom is disabled by the camera.

Don't set the lens to "Fisheye" and you can still Zoom. I do it as part of my normal routine with the Coolpix 5400 and tried it out on the 8700 I have.

And don't for get to turn the flash off if you don't use the Fisheye mode.

trsdellis  
 
 
What hosting company do you use for the premium virtual tours. Kayyah?

I use PicturePath to host and distribute my real estate tours, but haven't really done anything I'd call "premium" tours on a regular basis.
 
I've talked to Voyager, partly because they're just an hours drive north of me in Santa Fe and they do display the images much larger than PicturePath.  
 
When I've done "premium tours" its usually not for traditional real estate. So the customer normally has their own website and I deliver the tour on CD in a template they can edit to look like the rest of the website. It looke like this www.do222.com/iPIXIndex.htm
 
Following is a link for a tour I did while ago (the images aren't that great) and provided the floorplan for them to navigate from. I just don't know how to set up the "pop-up" windows, but there are some on my website for a good webmaster to copy, which is what the guy who did this site had to do. http://www.goldavenuelofts.com/beta/mountainVista.html
 
What I have in mind is a "floorplan navigation" approach using Tourweaver like you do or setting up a template that I can drop the floorplans I do for agents and the virtual images into and just move the hotspots around. My webmaster will let me host the tours on one of my websites and PicturePath will distribute a link to Realtor.com.
 
But first I need to make noticeable jump in image quality. I was planning on a Sigma 8mm for my Canon XTi, but the newly announced Sigma 4.5mm might make me wait a little longer. Depends on price and how well it does. I'll be looking forward to Andrew Baddeley's comments
 
Take care

CJulio25,
 
I use prohosters to host my premium tours - I have quite a few websites which are all interlinked etc. My basic tour is the Kayyah toiur which has to be hosted on Kayyah servers as it's a "back-office" style contruction for the tour.  
 
I personally hate Kayya servers as they tend to be very very slow. I could utilize the "one-shot"  360 One VR Kaiden lens I use for my basic tours and put the images into Tourweaver for example, but so far I have not bothered with it.  
 
I also find that even though your source image with the one shot lens seems sharp, once processed thru the "Photowarp" software, it looses any quality it may have had as you have to really restrict the file size to under 250K otherwise Kayah servers will error out on loading the Java.  
 
BUT, a positive for a basic Kayyah tour, you can get a 2,500 sq.ft. house shot in about 30-40 minutes (quicker if the seller is not there to marvel at your camera equipment) -Then process and upload to Kayyah servers can take about 1.5 hours depending on how anal you are about processing (i.e. Photoshop filters, noise reduction, exposure etc etc) So in all for around 2-2.5 hours work you can produce a basic Kayyah tour which is quite full featured.  
 
My problem with this whole Virtual Tour photographer issue is I want to produce the best quality tour I possibly can, BUT Realtors dont want to pay the money for a quality tour (Thats why Visualtour.com is in business - what crappy tours!) So often I spend way longer than I should on a tour processing the images etc - I actually make way more money shooting the basic Kayyah tours - I just dont like the quality of the end product, although as the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for"

Hi,
 
I am curious about upgrading all aspects of my tours, and I wanted an opinion (or two or many) about the thoughts of using an Olympus E3 and the Zuiko 8MM F3.5 Digital Fisheye Lens combo.  
 
Any thoughts?  I have the C-8080, and I was going to stay w/ Olympus because I have some transferrable accessories, but if you do not think this is a wise camera/combo - please let me know!!
 
Thanks so much,
 

I use a Nikon D80 and the NN3, and have 3 wide angle lenses to shoot panos. Here are my findings:
 
Sigma 8mm EX 3.5 : Way too soft - May panos look like something out of David Hamilton. Tried to return the lens to Sigma who sent it back saying it was "fine". 4 Pics to take a full pano, not counting a small nadir (4 pics at 90° slightly slanted upward - you should be able to get away with 3).  
 
Nikon Fisheye 10.5 : The easiest compromise. Not as good as the next lens below, but usually good enough. 7 pics, 6 at 60°, slightly slanted downwards to minimize the Nadir, plus Zenith. Gives fine panos, up to 5000 x 2500 pixels.
 
Sigma 10-20mm EX : My best lens for high-end panos. VERY sharp. Insanely sharp actually compared to the many other lenses (panos and non-panos) in my toolkit. 16 pics for a pano : 4 upwards 45°, 8 at 0, 4 downwards. I stitch razor-sharp 8k x 4k panos with this setup.

Hi Stephane,
 
Thanks for your reply.  I ended up buying a used D200, and the 10.5  It seemed like the sigma would never give me a print quality if I decided to go that direction.  I'm curious about your 10-20 sigma, that you said give's you the best results.  What focal length do you normally use between the 10-20 range?  
 
Do you have links to samples from the different set ups you mentioned below?  I'd love to see the diffference, and for the 10-20 sigma, do you ever do prints?    
 
Thanks again for the reply.  I have only completed a few pano's since I upgraded my equipment, but it's been a fun jump so far.  My goal is to be able to do high end web and print.  
 
Eli
 
 
 
 

Hi Stephane-Can you show an example of the soft pics on the 8mm versus the sharp ones on the 10-20mm?
 
I have a new Sigma 8mm and I can't decide if I have soft shots or a nodal problem.  I tend think what I am looking at is softness since it is pervasive and there is no ghosting at all.  It just seems to be not as crisp as I had hoped.

s hill
A nodal problem won't have anything to do with sharpness, just misalignments

Would I see ghosting on the misalignment or will it just look "soft"?

You'd see a "ghost" like a telephone pole next to itself, and one lighter than the other like a "ghost"

djaurand-
 
For clarification purposes-if I see no ghosting at all-just the lack of sharpness that I expected to see-it is most likely not a nodal problem-just softness-right?

From what you're describing, I'd say you have a "lack of sharpness"
 
Have you tried setting the Render to "More Sharpness"?  
 
I get really clear images with the Demo version of RVSUDS I've been experimenting with.
 
Although you have to understand my point of reference is years of using the Coolpix cameras with an FC-E8 or E9.  
 
So the results I'm starting to get with my Canon XTi/Sigma 8mm are vastly sharper and crisper

Thanks, I will give that a try.